Metal Gear Solid 4 is nothing if not a difficult, frustrating, and absolutely strange experience. A vanguard in some ways but a throwback in most, this latest work fits Hideo Kojima's canon in that the final shape of the creation isn't quite what was expected, yet the shocking unevenness at its core sets it apart. Guns of the Patriots lacks the dynamic energy of the master at his craft so typical of his greatest works… Missing the mad genius, the bravado and boldness that has always defined a Kojima game, Guns of the Patriots is not the finale that Solid Snake deserves.
For an exclusive title that currently represents the primary reason to own a PlayStation 3, Metal Gear Solid 4's structural framework is surprisingly archaic underneath the absurdly refined sheen and stunning layers of graphical excellence. However, though the game looks leaps and bounds ahead of the competition (and it really does), it doesn't play that way.
In terms of game design, Guns of the Patriots is just like the last two Metal Gear games with little to differentiate them outside of small tweaks and a control scheme that finally feels comparable to the current standard. Though I didn't expect Kojima to reinvent the Metal Gear formula, what I did expect was an updating and revitalization of the "tactical espionage action" the game purports to deliver.
For example, Solid Snake is still constrained by artificial barriers that many other games of the current age have left behind. For a battle-scarred veteran with decades of experience, how is it that small boxes and low obstructions are completely insurmountable, guiding the player like a rat through a maze with a dubious level of believability? How is it that a rocket launcher still can't open a wooden door? With the amount of horsepower under the PS3's hood, why can't Solid Snake walk up mildly sloping hills and interact with his environment outside of specifically prescribed actions?
In another example of outdated design, a heated battle raged in a small compound. After being thrust into the middle of the conflict, my instinct was to take the fight to the enemy and eliminate all opposition. I started with a stealthy approach and took out the peripheral guards before moving towards full-on assault screaming from behind a chaingun. Having the freedom to guide my own actions in this environment was a spectacular experience until I realized that the enemy army was infinitely respawning because I wasn't doing what Kojima wanted me to. In that moment, my level of immersion was completely destroyed. An endless stream of enemies because I didn't trip the right trigger? The game itself makes several references to being technologically advanced and leaving the limitations of the PS2 behind, but with design decisions like this, I fail to see what Kojima's talking about.
In what is perhaps the most offensive of all the outdated choices, Kojima devotes an unbelievably massive portion of the game's play time to non-interactive cutscenes.
Although I respect his creativity and craft as a director, the simple fact is that a videogame is not a film. Though the two mediums do share some of the same elements, many recent titles have proven that game storytelling is most successful when it capitalizes on the unique ability to involve players in ways film never could. Guns of the Patriots possesses certain scenes that had the potential to be some of the greatest of my gameplay career, yet by forcing me to be nothing more than an observer, I literally felt robbed of opportunities I should have taken part in. Rather than having memories of "being there" and "doing that", all I'll remember is that I was bored to death watching too many movies that ran on for too long.
The most baffling thing is that there are countless examples of other games which don't have a fraction of the drama that Kojima is able to create, yet their methods of making players feel a part of the events are far more successful than anything Guns of the Patriots achieves. Even something as simple as a button-pushing quick-time events would have done much to reduce the feeling of the player being completely nonessential. Unbelievably, this commonplace technique was completely ignored throughout the length of the game, until two short sequences at the end. Much too little, much too late.
Some may raise the point that the Metal Gear series has such a convoluted history and had so many loose ends to wrap up that the game needs to go places where gameplay can't follow; certain themes are too abstract or cerebral to translate into a concrete action able to be taken by a player, and I respect that. However, Guns of the Patriots indulges this side of its identity to unbelievable excess. Quite honestly, Kojima would have been better served by simply making a film and delivering the kind of experience he so obviously wants to, and not letting the problem of integrating gameplay hold him back.
Outdated design aside, I take serious issue with the content presented by Metal Gear Solid 4. The series has always been known as eccentric, but there has ever been a method to its madness—some sense of genius and purpose underneath all the confusing elements and bizarre plot twists. Not so with Guns of the Patriots. Kojima has been quoted in the press countless times as saying that he's tired of working on Metal Gear games, and that message comes through loud and clear.
More than anything, I get the sense that there was a focused effort put towards simply ending the series and wrapping up all loose ends, regardless of the quality of the final effort. Perhaps it was Kojima's way of making sure that he won't be forced to work on another Metal Gear game, but a lot of the nonsensical bits, absurd dialogue, tedious choices and absolutely missed opportunities feel jarringly out of step with what the last three games in this saga have been driving towards.
There was one particular scene at the end of the game that I felt could be a true milestone; a new high water mark in the kind of emotional impact that a videogame could have. The gravitas; the sheer emotional weight onscreen at that moment had intensity beyond words. At that instant, I was prepared to forgive many of the game's sins outright. Sadly, that potential for ultimate greatness was pathetically pissed away, just like so many other things that fail to crystallize over the course of what will likely be Snake's last mission. I have a hard time imagining that the Hideo Kojima of old would have allowed such a catastrophic misstep to happen, yet there it was.
So, where does all this leave Guns of the Patriots? The gameplay (what precious little of it there is) is still stuck in PS2-era levels of sophistication. A huge chunk of the total running time is non-interactive cutscenes, and these long segments of cinema are of questionable quality, filled with plot holes, nonsensical choices and fan service that undercuts its legitimacy. Is this a revolutionary, cutting-edge experience, or unchecked excess and failure to meet the standard of its contemporaries? To me, the answer is obvious.
Believe it or not, I do call myself a fan of Solid Snake, of Metal Gear, and most of all, of Hideo Kojima. These games are without a doubt significant, important titles that will not be forgotten. Kojima himself is absolutely brilliant, often blazing trails that others feared to tread and leading the way for lesser developers to follow in his footsteps. However, as much as I admire the man and his work, even the greatest of us can tire and falter. Even the greatest of us can make mistakes. I would love to have a chance to sit down with one of the industry's most well-known, well-respected auteurs and find out exactly what significance Guns of the Patriots holds for him because, quite honestly, it's a shadow of what it could, and should have been.
Transformers fan. MOTU stan. Black Lives Matter, pro-LGBTQIA. Anti-fascist.
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I know the MGS storyline so well that I could probably narrate it by memory. Instead of plot holes, its more like there are “patches” over obvious holes that might be there. here are some examples: 1. Big Boss’s Body and Eva’s reaction. Eva said she knew that it wasn’t really Big Boss’ body…why did she risk her precious life? 2. Why try to preserve Big Boss’ body? If liquid gets a hand on it the SOP system will be his. Besides those, here are some “annoyances” rather than “patch-ups”: 1 . Big Boss at the end has a different… Read more »
This is a little late to comment, but I’ve been out of the gaming loop: “the simple fact is that a videogame is not a film.” I guess that makes two of us who believe that, and I appreciate the honest review from your perspective. Even the severe amount of cut-scenes in MGS2 made me want to pull an Elvis on the television… and since then, I still don’t think an MGS game has matched the “tactical espionage action” feel of even the first Splinter Cell. Additionally, I’ve always been surprised at the low standards gamers have for cut scenes… Read more »
[quote=Brad Gallaway]This thread has gone on way longer than i imagined it would, and (mostly) thanks to everybody for participating. just a few final comments, and then you guys are free to take this wherever you want to, i’ve repeated my points over and over again and i need to move on to other things besides defending a technically above-average score for a mediocre game. before anything else, let me just say that in retrospect i would have added a word or two to the review to clarify that i’m not against cutscenes *as a rule* and that their inclusion… Read more »
I would just like to say thanks Brad for taking the time to give responses to the posts on the forum.
I can now see a bit better where you are coming with the review in terms of the 5/10 being average where as average in many other sites/mags starts from 7/10.
This thread has gone on way longer than i imagined it would, and (mostly) thanks to everybody for participating. just a few final comments, and then you guys are free to take this wherever you want to, i’ve repeated my points over and over again and i need to move on to other things besides defending a technically above-average score for a mediocre game. before anything else, let me just say that in retrospect i would have added a word or two to the review to clarify that i’m not against cutscenes *as a rule* and that their inclusion in… Read more »
[quote=Stevo]
Whether Mass Effect should be a 10 or not is a completely different argument but the fact that his own criteria has changed from reviewing one game to another PROVES that his personal opinion is his only croiteria for reviewing rather than informed judgement.[/quote]
I can see your point. That was one of his critiques of the game.
[quote=Odofakyodo]My point was that someone has to actually be doing something, making decisions, configuring the events that are going on. Dancing requires that. Video games require that. That is all I’m saying. Yes, the specific skills needed to dance are different than the specific skills needed to play a videogame. So what? Both require effort and energy to be expent in order to exist. Just because one activity is more physical than another doesn’t mean the more mental one can’t be great art. Each activity requires it’s own special skills. Not everyone can play a game very well, not everyone… Read more »
Jesus, my Mass effect reference is relevant as Brad stated in his review that MGS4 is what is expected of a game with a ‘next-gen’ overhaul but below the standard of which many other games have acheived so far doing this. And that MGS4 lacks any genuine move forward in innovation. This was a major flaw of MGS per Brad yet with Mass Effect which is a modern version in effect of KOTOR (i.e. its premise and gameplay mechanics remain the same)he basically ignores this point by giving Mass Effect a 10/10. That is a very valid argument as it… Read more »
Well that’s all well and good, Brad, but you didn’t respond to the issue i raised. you complained in your review that the cut-scenes in Guns of the Patriots were too long and that the cut-scene to gameplay ratio was too skewed to the cut-scenes. i’ll admit that’s a legitimate complaint, but the problem is that the previous games, which you said you were a fan off, also had cut-scenes that were just as long as the ones in MGS4, and also had a ratio that favored the cut-scenes. so what i’m basically asking is this; if you were okay… Read more »
My point was that someone has to actually be doing something, making decisions, configuring the events that are going on. Dancing requires that. Video games require that. That is all I’m saying. Yes, the specific skills needed to dance are different than the specific skills needed to play a videogame. So what? Both require effort and energy to be expent in order to exist. Just because one activity is more physical than another doesn’t mean the more mental one can’t be great art. Each activity requires it’s own special skills. Not everyone can play a game very well, not everyone… Read more »
[quote=Odofakyodo] What I meant was more general “acting” in the sense of doing something – expending some effort and exerting some control over the situation. As in the case of dancing, some activity has to be going on for the art to exist.[/quote] I’m sorry activity? Video games, expending effort? I’m not trying to be facetious but come on. Comparing the physical dexterity and endurance required in dancing to the movement of fingers on a control seems a bit off. If you want to say you exert some mental energy that’s fine. When i was a kid i used to… Read more »
[quote]Hmm should I? Only b/c its been a long time since we argued Odafakyodo. Are you saying gaming is acting or like acting? If so i would vehemently have to disagree with you.[/quote] That’s not exactly what I meant, but I would say that sometimes, or perhaps often, gaming is like acting (as in, you know, an actor in a movie or a play) because the player is pretending to be her avatar or some fictitious character. It is fundamentally different from acting because the player’s path is not pre-scripted. What I meant was more general “acting” in the sense… Read more »
I don’t understand why Mass effect’s score is an issue. What does it matter what he thought of mass effect if we’re talking about Metal Gear. Metal gear left much to be desired, the cut scenes took a lot out of the gameplay and the story was so so at best. How are these points invalidated by Mass Effect being rated a 10?
[quote=Odofakyodo] Occasionally it can be seen and heard (film), so why not seen, heard, and acted, as in the case of videogames?[/quote]
Hmm should I? Only b/c its been a long time since we argued Odafakyodo. Are you saying gaming is acting or like acting? If so i would vehemently have to disagree with you.
[quote=Stevo]Interestingly Brad slates MGS4 for lack of innovation on gameplay and yet gives Mass Effect a 10/10. Although I personally like this game, it is essentially a glorified package of Knights of the Republic with some updates that are expected with the ‘next-gen’ (as you slated MGS4 for). I think you are a bit contradictory in your beliefs and principals here Brad. [/quote] Wow, he gave mass effect a 10/10? This is the same Brad right? The same Brad that is saying that 5/10 is the REAL average. A 10/10 means that the game is GODLY PERFECT. So GODLY that… Read more »
[quote]This is exactly how I feel about the art concept. Anything can be labelled ‘art’ with its very wide reaching definitions. But games have been and will always be about ‘playing’ and ‘gameplay’.[/quote] [quote]Any ways I need to go as I have some one who has come to view my art collection, being Snakes & Ladders, Monopoly and Halo 3 (LOL).[/quote] While the joke is amusing, the assumption implicit in these statements, and much of the rest of your arguments, is that only things that can be “viewed”–that is, observed visually–and whose primary purpose is not to entertain can be… Read more »
[quote=Selfless Pride]I have to agree with Jesus and Stevo. Many debates are rarely black and white. And I have enjoyed reading the arguments about “Art” and “Games”. The problem with “Art” is that it can be used in practically everything. The programming code written to launch a Nasa shuttle into space is just a work of art in the way the alogrithms are condensed and put together. Hard core programmers would “get off” looking at code like that. The point here is when “Games” were first derived, they were meant to be a past-time people can interact and have fun.… Read more »
[quote=Snack Eater]I think I have a much more developed understanding of what MGS is really about than all of these literal-minded fanboys butthurt over Brad’s review. It’s called Gamecritics, not Gamereviewers. Criticism is the articulation of one’s own personal opinion on a work of art (and/or commercial entertainment, so as not to bait the philistines), that is Brad’s opinion, he’s articulated it nicely, and there’s no reason he has to get in lock step with everybody else, especially since one of the things that videogame criticism needs now is more disparity between reviews to help foster a healthy discussion, which… Read more »
Kyle ur gay! Brad=Ownage!
Sorry it had to come to this.
I don’t think that defeats the point that MGO should have been mentionned to some degree as it is part of the game regardless. As consumers should know about it. I’ve just read through all the comments and it’s been fun. From talking about Art to the Review to the Bashing. One thing’s for sure. This is entertaining. 😛 I do think everyone has a point to some degree whether it’s Brad or the flaming from some of the commenters. Underneath all the comments there lies actual good points which should be carefully looked at. Hopefully these will be carried… Read more »
[quote=Nick]Wow, follow your own advice buddy. Waaaaaaaa. What a sap. To answer this screaming lunatic’s reponses: 1. The Ferrari and Rolls Royce analogy Aaron made answers this easily. 2. The database is there for people who didn’t follow all the MGS or for those who want to know more about the MGS universe. They did not provide it to clarify MGS4. If you looked at it (which you obviously didn’t) it contains everything about MGS. 3. A review should cover core aspects of the game. MGO is a BIG part of the game. It might not be part of the… Read more »
Dude, seriously…calm down. I don’t think anyone on here has said the game is bad. Brad said it could have been better, that’s all. What do YOU expect from this site? If your’re expecting ign, gamsespot, gamepro, bs “Greatest ever!!!” “Perfect 10!” you’ve come to the wrong site. The game is good, you can breathe easy, I’m sure Brad thinks its good too. Seems like you came here with that mentallity from other sites, with classy lines like, “MGS4 OWNS!” and “MGS4>HALO3!”. Take that crap to ign with the rest of the flamers. As far as Metal Gear online goes,… Read more »
[quote=Nick] 4. No one has directly accused Brad of such. We all asked a simple question. What did you expect from MGS4? We all said as a fan, we all know that it will have crazy long cutscenes and codec moments. Over-the-top insane storyline with wierd bosses. To most people who have played past MGS games it is hard to believe that Brad has really played any from what he has said. He is taking off points for something that he should have already known. It’s like saying Oblivion lost points because the world is so open. Or GTA lost… Read more »
[quote=Aaron]I don’t think you should answer for people. And I don’t think you know much about MGS yourself. MGS has alway had almost seemingly “supernatural” stuff about it. Nanomachines is just the best way to describe it instead of short throughing aliens in there or gamma radiation. Heck, look at MGS3 with the Cobra Unit which was before the Nanomachines. What the heck is that? This is MGS for goodness sakes! As MANY readers pointed out, what type of game were you expecting??? You and Brad fail to see what MGS is all about. End of story. You fail to… Read more »
[quote=Padan Fain]Wow. Some of you are taking this review way too personally. Looks like Brad hit a nerve. 1) Just because someone is a “fan” of something doesn’t mean that he has to see everything the way you do. It doesn’t mean he has to forgive things that he sees as excessive even they “OMFGorz they are MGS, for pete’s sake, what did you expect you n00b?? Waaa gimme my bottle I’m gonna cry now!” 2) If you have to read a freaking database to understand a the narrative, then the cutscenes must not have done a very good job… Read more »
First of all, i think it’s hilariously absurd that the comment was made that a guy who uses the handle ‘Snack Eater’ doesn’t know what MGS is about. Secondly… [quote]but if he was really a fan of the previous games, he should have at least enjoyed playing through it. simply because MGS4 has everything that made the previous games fantastic, and then some.[/quote] So let me get this straight– if i was a fan of the previous games (which i was, and still am) then i should have at least enjoyed playing through MGS4. besides the fact that i generally… Read more »
Wow. Some of you are taking this review way too personally. Looks like Brad hit a nerve. 1) Just because someone is a “fan” of something doesn’t mean that he has to see everything the way you do. It doesn’t mean he has to forgive things that he sees as excessive even they “OMFGorz they are MGS, for pete’s sake, what did you expect you n00b?? Waaa gimme my bottle I’m gonna cry now!” 2) If you have to read a freaking database to understand a the narrative, then the cutscenes must not have done a very good job at… Read more »
[quote=Eric]Of course Brad is free to dislike any game he wants, for any reason he sees fit. The problem is that he claims to be a ‘fan’ of the Metal Gear series, but criticizes Guns of the Patriots for things that other fans love about the series, and what we feel make the series great. i would just like to ask Brad what exactly he was a fan of in regard to the past games; they had all the ‘issues’ he complained about in this review, such as the long cut-scenes. like i eluted too in my previous comment; Brad… Read more »
Oh and seriously, a serious reviewer or critic should take ALL aspects of the game into account. How can you leave out such a big component of the game? The COMPLETE LACK of not mentionning Metal Gear Online in the review is a huge blind sight on the reviewer’s part. A simple note would have even helped. In the mission statement, the VERY FIRST point says: Provide consumers with insightful, useful, and entertaining content on videogames. If I was just an average consumer knowing nothing about MGS4, then I would no nothing about MGO after reading this review. You have… Read more »
[quote=jesus]Sounds like a lot of you wanted a review like the ones gamespot and ign gave. Brad said that on this site the average is 5 out of 10 not 8 out of 10 like most sites. The cut scenes are remarkable, but Brad’s right, I want to play the game not watch it. If Kojima wanted me to watch, he could have made it a movie ala Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children. The game scored a 6.5 which within the context of THIS site is good, not great. I’m not finished (on Act IV) but thus far I have… Read more »
Of course Brad is free to dislike any game he wants, for any reason he sees fit. The problem is that he claims to be a ‘fan’ of the Metal Gear series, but criticizes Guns of the Patriots for things that other fans love about the series, and what we feel make the series great. i would just like to ask Brad what exactly he was a fan of in regard to the past games; they had all the ‘issues’ he complained about in this review, such as the long cut-scenes. like i eluted too in my previous comment; Brad… Read more »
Sounds like a lot of you wanted a review like the ones gamespot and ign gave. Brad said that on this site the average is 5 out of 10 not 8 out of 10 like most sites. The cut scenes are remarkable, but Brad’s right, I want to play the game not watch it. If Kojima wanted me to watch, he could have made it a movie ala Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children. The game scored a 6.5 which within the context of THIS site is good, not great. I’m not finished (on Act IV) but thus far I have… Read more »
[quote=Snack Eater][quote=Selfless Pride]That is why you shouldn’t review this game. You could care less about the story. Don’t bother replying because it will get no where. Most people have already disagreed with you. I’m sure you are the type who aims at trying to aim for the minority to hopefully become that majority one day. Anyway, keep trying. No point debating on this as you don’t care about the story obviously. It was well done if you understood it all and as another reader pointed it, listed out many emotional moments.[/quote] I think Brad cares very deeply about the Metal… Read more »
[quote=Selfless Pride]That is why you shouldn’t review this game. You could care less about the story. Don’t bother replying because it will get no where. Most people have already disagreed with you. I’m sure you are the type who aims at trying to aim for the minority to hopefully become that majority one day. Anyway, keep trying. No point debating on this as you don’t care about the story obviously. It was well done if you understood it all and as another reader pointed it, listed out many emotional moments.[/quote] I think Brad cares very deeply about the Metal Gear… Read more »
[quote=Eric]Okay, Brad, you are officially my least favorite critic on this site. people like you are the reason why many people accuse critics of being cynical assholes. [/quote] Haha. I wouldn’t go that far to call them assholes. That’s too harsh. Brad reviewed it the way he thought. But obviously he failed on many aspects. Simple as that. [quote=Eric] you claim to be a fan of the series, but based on what you criticized the game for, i can’t believe you. especally in regards to the cut-scenes; the cut-scenes in Guns of the Patriots are no different than the ones… Read more »
[quote=Brad Gallaway] i’m not confused at all, i simply think that MGS3 ended on a fantastically high note in terms of what Kojima achieved, and all MGS4 did was to bring down and sully what he created. if you’re a “fan” and all you care about is X answer to Y question, then of course you’d want “the end of the series” and read the MGS database from start to finish. in terms of writing, craft, and emotional impact, MGS4 is pretty laughable and a low point for Kojima as far as i’m concerned. i would have much preferred he… Read more »
Okay, Brad, you are officially my least favorite critic on this site. people like you are the reason why many people accuse critics of being cynical assholes. you claim to be a fan of the series, but based on what you criticized the game for, i can’t believe you. especally in regards to the cut-scenes; the cut-scenes in Guns of the Patriots are no different than the ones in previous games. they’re just as long and plentiful. in fact, after i first played through MGS4, i played through Sons of Liberty (that’d be MGS2) again, and the cut-scenes in THAT… Read more »
Jesus, I am not speaking of videogames as art out of context. I have not removed them from society or culture. I am simply starting from a fundamental definition and building on that. I believe that we need to recognize what “art” is and what a “game” is and what exactly is the relationship, if any, between the two. We can use societal and cultural observations to do that. Actually, I think we are in large part in agreement. We both think that art has a broad scope. We both think that videogames are art. And I totally agree with… Read more »
[quote]Completely agree. I think Brad has Snake from MGS3 and Solid Snake from MG1/MG2/MGS1/MGS2/MGS4 confused. At least that’s how it sounds. Ending at MGS3 would leave too many questions unanswered in the series. Especially when they ended with such a climax at the end of MGS2 by revealing The Patriots.[/quote] i’m not confused at all, i simply think that MGS3 ended on a fantastically high note in terms of what Kojima achieved, and all MGS4 did was to bring down and sully what he created. if you’re a “fan” and all you care about is X answer to Y question,… Read more »
[quote=Brad Gallaway] since game reviews at GC don’t start at 8 = average, a lower than expected score was the only outcome. the concept of “art” wasn’t really used to knock points off, unless you ant to talk about the terrible writing or horrible directorial choices. = )[/quote] HAHAHA!! Not done with the game yet, but so true. I see your point on the losing of immersion from the game. Once Kojima makes you pay attention to the cut scenes instead of having you involved in the game, you realize two things: Man the cut scences look great, and man… Read more »
[quote=Selfless Pride] When people look at video game reviews, the majority want to know how the game plays, is it worth playing, are the graphics good, then comes is the story good? I think the problems lies within this site, I’m sorry. This site GameCritics.com should really have a mission statement or something indicating that our reviews are more heavily based on how games have progressed to become an art form. If that’s the case, then 6.5 go ahead and no one would argue as much. [/quote] Hey S.P. Thanks for your comments, and i definitely see your point. it… Read more »
Oops forgot to add something.
Brad I would like to know those “plot holes” that you mentionned as well. You said “full of plot holes”.
Shoot them at me, I’m quite sure I can answer them as long it is reasonable. Not something like, “How is it possible to keep Big Boss alive?”
As one of the commenters said earlier, it isn’t full of plot holes. If it is, it is your lack of understanding of the actual plot and story.
[quote=Anonymous] You say that ending the series with MGS3 would have been perfect. Are you completely nuts?!?! This is the proof that you shouldn’t be reviewing it as a “fan”. Instead you should be reviewing this as a regular gamer who enjoys MGS. As a fan, meaning you enjoy the game more then a person who just likes it per say, you would know about the storylines in MG/MGS. If you do know the storyline then how on earth could the ending of MGS3 end the series? MGS3 talked about who Big Boss was and how he came to be.… Read more »
I have to agree with Jesus and Stevo. Many debates are rarely black and white. And I have enjoyed reading the arguments about “Art” and “Games”. The problem with “Art” is that it can be used in practically everything. The programming code written to launch a Nasa shuttle into space is just a work of art in the way the alogrithms are condensed and put together. Hard core programmers would “get off” looking at code like that. The point here is when “Games” were first derived, they were meant to be a past-time people can interact and have fun. That’s… Read more »
That’s an excellent definition. However, when dealing with society and culture, we must put any defnition describing a cultural or societal phenomena within an appropriate context. By this definition pornography is as much art as shakespeare, not that i disagree, but i think we can see a sharp difference between the two types of art. One is a purely, self-gratifying medium that speaks only to the senses, while the other though gratifying transmits a myriad of emotions, expressions, and observations of the world in which it exists. We must add context folks, the world does not exist within webster’s black… Read more »
I admit that I may have misinterpreted your overall thesis, and I accept that you do consider videogames as art. The place that we differ on, though, is the relative importance of the “artistic” qualities of videogames. I believe they are of paramount importance, while you do not. I accept the fact that I am in the minority in my view. That does not prove me wrong. In fact, I’ve alluded to the need to convince more people of hopping the fence to my side, as the saying goes. Chi also mentioned this need in his article, and I referred… Read more »
As Jesus said earlier on, by judging games as art we are going out of context. This is how I feel and where my argument is based. If you feel that the art side of games is the most important part of a game then congrats to you, because I and virtually every other gamer out there does not. You have missed my point a little trying to get me to justify why games are not art, because I am not stating that. As Jesus said, juding them as art primary is judging them out of context. Of course anything… Read more »
[quote=Stevo]Odofakyodo, you are really boring me with your ‘art’ definitions and what be. It seems like you would rather talk about art rather than video games my friend?[/quote] Wow. Just Wow. Did you even read what I wrote in my last response to you? Do you even understand what it is we are arguing about here? I explained exactly why I thought it was important for games to be considered art. [quote]Maybe you are a frustrated painter and therfore in the wrong site? I have not met your detailed arguments about what is art, and art can be enjoying blah… Read more »
[quote=Stevo]DO YOU NOT AGREE THAT ART IS A VERY SMALL PROPORTION OF THE OVERALL EXPERIENCE OF A GAME?[/quote] Art is the very experience of the game. Entertainment is one aspect of the art. Analyzing the art of a game is to breakdown the whole experience and not just whether it is fun or not. If you think that Kojima is simply trying to entertain you and nothing else, than you’ve completely missed out on why so many people consider his work genius. There are many other ways to look at the games we play that can be enriching to us.… Read more »
Odofakyodo, you are really boring me with your ‘art’ definitions and what be. It seems like you would rather talk about art rather than video games my friend? Maybe you are a frustrated painter and therfore in the wrong site? I have not met your detailed arguments about what is art, and art can be enjoying blah blah blah because as I said you are going in the wrong direction with this. You can simply mince your words with the art arguments to make everything sound contradictionary by going off point and using all sort of examples. To summarise, games… Read more »