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GameCritics.com Podcast Episode 16: Post E3 2009 Special

Tim Spaeth's picture

Not even the Wii Vitality Sensor could measure the explosive force of our E3 episode. Press conferences! Motion control! Overpriced handhelds! And of course, games, games, games. It's the Internet's only source for E3 analysis, so of course you won't want to miss it. Featuring "Big Daddy" Brad Gallaway, "Horror Geek" Mike Bracken, "Canucklehead" David Stone, and "Nicknameless" Tim Spaeth.

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Nicknames

I vote to for Tim "Gentleman" Spaeth and change for Mike "Hates Everything" Bracken.

From Chi "North/South" Lui

I don't hate

I don't hate *everything*--I'm just comfortable being very vocal about the shit I don't like.

podcast

I hope you guys do come back and listen to this podcast next year.

I'm humbled that you took time to mention my post in the forums. I think it would have been better to mention how sequel heavy the entire E3 show was. Instead it seemed most of you were more than happy with harping on Nintendo for spitting out sequels while gushing over sequels coming out on other platforms.

But I don't blame you. Only because I believe you don't see it the way I do. You seem to have eternal hope that these hi-def games are going to finally deliver some brand new gameplay because they just look so damn cool. Meanwhile Nintendo's title lack the gleem of HD so right off the mark they get a point taken away.

Listen to the comments about Assassin's Creed 2 and Mario Galaxy 2. Miyamoto is the one guy who admits to re-using old assets while the rest of the industry doesn't admit it? Now, I'm sure God of War 3 has all new material, but you can't tell me that you think God of War 1 and 2 have no shared assets. Meanwhile, you jump on Assassin's Creed 1 for the repetition, and then you start hyping the sequel just based on the trailer. The producers say they are changing the play style, more missions and less pick-pocketing. Well, la-dee-da. That still doesn't tell us anything about it. Yet, thanks to a slick trailer it has more potential than SMG2.

I'm more than willing to give AC2 a chance, but it has the same chance as SMG2.

From my outside view, most of your opinions seem to be based on style rather than substance. Microsoft's presentation looked cool. Sony's presentation looked cool. Nintendo's presentation looked boring. Wow. Way to cut through the crap and take an objective point of view. I agree, Nintendo was dry while the others tried to entertain. But isn't that how magic works? Distract the audience so you don't see the fishingwire holding the show together.

Why am I talking? Its not like I'm changing opinions. I guess I just want to point out inconsistencies. A game is a game is a game. But what makes the difference is the skin, which is wrong. Just listen to yourselves. Take comments slightly out of context.

Yeah, you make me frustrated. That should be the title for a song.

Great Podcast

This was such a good podcast guys, I don't even know where to start.

Firstly, I was happy to hear your criticisms of the Nintendo conference. I watched the conference live and a lot of people were pretty skeptical for a large portion of the conference, but gave it a pass when Other M showed up, and that just boggled my mind. Am I interested in a team ninja developed Metroid game? Yes, because of the sheer surprise factor, but it hardly seemed like the home run that a lot of people are championing it as (the graphics are atrocious, and the concept of championing it as a "maturing" of one of their big franchises seems silly given that it's Metroid. Since when has that series been immature anyway?)

And I was really worried that you weren't gonna bring it up, but happy to hear Scribblenauts get a mention at the last second. I am consistently underwhelmed by pretty much everything the DS has on offer, so to see this was really a breath of fresh air. I had a lot of the same skepticisms that were discussed in the podcast too, but after seeing repeated videos it's hard to feel anything but optimism about it.

The only thing that puzzles me is the Lords of Shadow discussion, where it was stated that it looked like a great game, but not a Castlevania game, which is an observation I've heard a lot of elsewhere, but can't see myself. The main character, for instance, looks more like an appropriate CV hero than the past what five or six metroidvanias, and the action seems like exactly what was called for in a 3D castlevania game. I will say that it didn't seem "dark" enough, but given that the internet teaser revolved around a mask breaking and reforming depending on the time of day, I imagine that "darkness" will play a big role here.

Oh, and I was suprised not to hear much mention of Silent Hill: Shattered Memories. I really don't know what to make of it myself, and would've liked to get some of the GC crew's take on it.

Thanks, Boy and Vince!

Glad to hear some feedback for the podcast. It's a lot of fun to do, and with E3, it's such a meaty topic that we were pretty bushed by the time we finished recording.

I just wanted to address two points:

1) Vince, I'm really glad to hear your comments. What was nice about the games that Sony and MS announced is that, for the most part, there were so many games that needed to be played. Mario Galaxy 2? It didn't need to be made, let alone played. I"m sure it'll be a lot of fun - I've yet to play a real "Mario" game that isn't at least a little fun - but it's a bit of a cash-in feeling. Mario Galaxy 1 was a damn near-perfect experience as far as pure platforming went (at least for me; I know a large contingent of the internet hated it, but it's right up there, tied for third with Mario World, behind Mario 64 and Mario 3), while Assassin's Creed needed a LOT of improvement. They're promising to fix things for AC2. What did SMG need to fix?

The Wii is a great system, but it doesn't seem to have legs, or the ability to expand like the 360 or PS3. And the ways they expand it: the Vitality Sensor? No thanks.

2) Boy: The last time we had a game where darkness and light came into play, we had Castlevania 64. No thanks. :) Also, the game is being retrofitted to be a CV game, rather than built from the ground up. We knew that goign in, even before the trailer was shown. The game was known to exist for some time before it was revealed to be a CV title.

It's hard not to notice this retrofitting with things like graphic style, environment and enemy design. I mean, how the heck do you make a CV trailer without a single Medusa head? It's clear it's got a long way to go, but as long as Koji Igarashi isn't invited to the party, I'm there.

David Stone wrote: What was

David Stone wrote:

What was nice about the games that Sony and MS announced is that, for the most part, there were so many games that needed to be played. Mario Galaxy 2? It didn't need to be made, let alone played. I"m sure it'll be a lot of fun - I've yet to play a real "Mario" game that isn't at least a little fun - but it's a bit of a cash-in feeling. Mario Galaxy 1 was a damn near-perfect experience as far as pure platforming went (at least for me; I know a large contingent of the internet hated it, but it's right up there, tied for third with Mario World, behind Mario 64 and Mario 3), while Assassin's Creed needed a LOT of improvement. They're promising to fix things for AC2. What did SMG need to fix?

That's a pretty subjective way to think about it, and it doesn't really cover all the bases. It works for Resident Evil 4, but what about RE5? Some people feel RE5 went backwards from where RE4 was. Yet I enjoyed both games quite a bit. Then there is Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2. For alot of people, Vegas 1 was damn near perfect, then 6 months later out pops Vegas 2.

They're all cash-ins, whether they feel like it or not. God of War 3 is coming with new moves and new enemies, new locations. Assassins Creed 2 is coming with new moves, new enemies and new locations. And they improve on the original in one way or another. Animal Crossing on the Wii did not do this. It was not needed. Super Mario Galaxy 2: from comments made so far and videos, looks like it has new moves, new enemies and new locations. It'll probably have some graphical tweaks too. So, I think it 'needs' to be made just as much as any other sequel 'needs' to be made.

A sequel to Too Human 'needs' to be made. Think we'll see it?

Quote:

The Wii is a great system, but it doesn't seem to have legs, or the ability to expand like the 360 or PS3.

?? I don't understand why this was thrown in there. Are you saying that the Wii has done all it can do so all future games from here on out are not worth considering by people who enjoy playing games?

-- Off topic --

Look, don't get me wrong. I love this kind of debate. I love gaming. I have all current systems except for the PSP and DSi. I have been gaming since the Atari 2600. Each system has its merits, just as each has its problems. And I'll go out and defend a system if it seems people are downplaying the games just because the system its on. The systems are tools. Maybe the Wii is just a hammer, while the 360 and PS3 are nail guns with several attachments (swiss army nail guns??). But they all put nails through wood. And in the right hands, they all make beautiful houses. Ok, its not a perfect analogy. But you get my drift.

-- switching gears --

E3 is a business show. There are more than game journalists in the audience. People from Time, Cosmo, Newsweek, mainstream press are at the event. And Nintendo knows this. The Women's mystery club is for that part of the audience. It belongs at E3 because they know who is watching. Truthfully, gamers don't need E3 because we know all the leaks and screen shots and press releases the moment they are released in the wild. Penny Arcade's event, Blizzard's event, Quakecon, those are the shows we need.

I think the difference is

I think the difference is that, typically, Mario game have been handled with greater care than other franchises. (I don't mean the whoring out of Mario; I'm referring to the canon platformers.) It's all very subjective, and of course money talks.

It's never a question of enjoyability. I know that I'd enjoy SMG2, I just don't want to buy it. I would agree with you about Animal Crossing Wii, though, and I think the sales numbers (and its lack of footprint like the GCN's game) reflect this.

I think at the end of the day, it WILL be a subjective argument. There is no right or wrong answer, and I enjoy reading your point of view. That's part of what makes this site so great.

As far as the Wii comment, I was addressing the Nintendo press conference with that one. (switching gears without realizing it, and shouldn't type so late at night...) The fact is, they're not really growing the system. The 360 is one of the best platforms I can remember this side of the SNES because of all the amazing additions of services, cohesive backbone in the form of LIVE, and having all the great games come to the platform. I don't remember the last time anyone brought up the DVD vs. BD debate in a while either. The hardware - while physically unreliable for a long time - is modular and has great legs. The Wii, while amazingly fun given the right pieces of software, just doesn't seem to have this capacity. I don't understand the direction of growth with the Vitality Sensor. I know the whole Blue Ocean thing, and the DS sure worked out, but... this? I'm totally baffled. It seems that the Wii has to grow sideways, because it can't grow upwards.

Regarding SMG2 and AC2

Vince wrote:

Listen to the comments about Assassin's Creed 2 and Mario Galaxy 2. Miyamoto is the one guy who admits to re-using old assets while the rest of the industry doesn't admit it? Now, I'm sure God of War 3 has all new material, but you can't tell me that you think God of War 1 and 2 have no shared assets. Meanwhile, you jump on Assassin's Creed 1 for the repetition, and then you start hyping the sequel just based on the trailer. The producers say they are changing the play style, more missions and less pick-pocketing. Well, la-dee-da. That still doesn't tell us anything about it. Yet, thanks to a slick trailer it has more potential than SMG2.

Thanks Vince (and everyone!) for the comments. Regarding Mario Galaxy 2, I'm not convinced that other than Yoshi, anything of significance is changing. And that's fine, since SMG is among my favorite titles from this generation. But it's a title I played only once, well over a year ago. I'm old and my memory sucks. If I were to play a random level from either game and then had to identify the game to which it belongs, I probably couldn't. No question I'll buy the sequel, but I'm not exploding with anticipation for it because the roughly the same experience is already sitting on my game shelf.

And as I said in the show, I'm hyping AC2 based not on the trailer, but on a developer interview and the gameplay demonstration at the Sony press conference. Desilets and Raymond have gone on record as saying they know what critics despised about the original game and that they have eliminated those elements entirely. That is a fundamental difference from what Miyamoto is saying about SMG2, which is that 10% of the game consists of levels lifted wholesale, pixel for pixel, from the original (albeit with different star locations). Certainly Miyamoto has earned the benefit of the doubt; very few others could get away with that without harsh criticism. And as you say, assets (and engines) are re-used all the time, but this is straight-up duplication of content.

Vince wrote:

A sequel to Too Human 'needs' to be made. Think we'll see it?

No, unfortunately, but I'd be first in line for it.

18-34

I think the best comment in your podcast was that you're "outgrowing the 18 to 34 demographic". How much longer are you guys going to be into gaming as a hobby if you hate where it's going and you don't care what value things have to people unlike yourselves?

Great pod guys. The only

Great pod guys.

The only thing i would add is my own game pick of the E3 show was Splinter Cell: Conviction. If the demonstration is any indication of how/what the gameplay would be like i can't wait.

Minority Groups in Gaming

Dean wrote:

I think the best comment in your podcast was that you're "outgrowing the 18 to 34 demographic". How much longer are you guys going to be into gaming as a hobby if you hate where it's going and you don't care what value things have to people unlike yourselves?

Not all games are made for 18 to 35 year olds and I think we have to accept that at some point we will become (if we aren't already) the minorities. There are pocket markets already for Sierra-style adventure games, flight sims, etc. I think console gamers just need to get comfortable with being the minority.

I also don't have a problem with Nintendo showcasing Agatha Christie's Mystery Whatever at E3. E3 is considered the Mecca for gamers, but its also a tradeshow designed to attract media that wouldn't normally cover this sort of thing.

Trade show

Chi Kong Lui wrote:

I also don't have a problem with Nintendo showcasing Agatha Christie's Mystery Whatever at E3. E3 is considered the Mecca for gamers, but its also a tradeshow designed to attract media that wouldn't normally cover this sort of thing.

This is the thing that the core audience cant get over. EA and Ubisoft showing their line of games for girls and Nintendo showing these games that clearly arent for the core but are vital for these companies to show. Its not all about the core games and we need to just deal with it.

I also dont understand the hate on Galaxy 2 while Assassin's Creed 2 is so anticipated. Why wouldnt you want more of a game that was near perfection instead of more of a game that was flawed? Plus, how can Galaxy 2 be a cash-in when the period between the two games is longer than the period between AC games?

Chi Kong Lui wrote: I also

Chi Kong Lui wrote:

I also don't have a problem with Nintendo showcasing Agatha Christie's Mystery Whatever at E3. E3 is considered the Mecca for gamers, but its also a tradeshow designed to attract media that wouldn't normally cover this sort of thing.

Thanks for having my back, Chi. It's the Electronic Entertainment Expo, not Hardcore Wankfest. Like it or not, Women's Murder Club is big-money ELECTRONIC ENTERTAINMENT.

JimWood wrote:

I also dont understand the hate on Galaxy 2 while Assassin's Creed 2 is so anticipated. Why wouldnt you want more of a game that was near perfection instead of more of a game that was flawed? Plus, how can Galaxy 2 be a cash-in when the period between the two games is longer than the period between AC games?

Because the first AC had a great mechanic, and a great world, and everything in place except for a game. It has enough merit to have something built upon. SMG was a complete experience (and enough awards back up this statement), which is why it's definitely a case of gilding the lily whereas AC2 can help redeem AC1.

JimWood wrote: I also dont

JimWood wrote:

I also dont understand the hate on Galaxy 2 while Assassin's Creed 2 is so anticipated. Why wouldnt you want more of a game that was near perfection instead of more of a game that was flawed? Plus, how can Galaxy 2 be a cash-in when the period between the two games is longer than the period between AC games?

Not all sequels are equal. I think there's a general sense that Nintendo is creatively bankrupt and all they do is churn out these sequels that have very little vitality in them. Almost all their big franchaises are for the most part by the numbers (Zelda, Mario Kart, Mario Party, etc).

AC on the other hand is a new IP that hasn't tapped its full potential in terms of gameplay and storytelling and that's what gets our staffer's juices going.

David Stone wrote: Thanks

David Stone wrote:

Thanks for having my back, Chi. It's the Electronic Entertainment Expo, not Hardcore Wankfest. Like it or not, Women's Murder Club is big-money ELECTRONIC ENTERTAINMENT.

You guys are in denial. You can bring Oprah to the press conference or Cosmo or Time Magazine--doesn't change the fact that 99% of the audience at any E3 is comprised of "hardcore" gamers. We've all been to the show, we've all seen the people there. Hell, we've all SMELLED the people there. It's hardcore wankfest central.

You can argue that James Patterson's Women's Murder Club is something worth seeing at the show. I didn't disagree with the fact that it shouldn't be at E3--I argue that it shouldn't be part of the "major announcements" at a press conference. Show it on the floor, have people out there demoing it, whatever. Press conferences, like it or not, are for shock and awe. No one there cared. The silence says it all. We can debate hardcore vs. casual games til the end of time (I have nothing against casual games) as well as who goes to E3 and whatnot. The fact of it is, casual gaming America still has no clue what E3 even is. People on videogame sites know what it is--but people who buy Guitar Hero or Wii Sports and little else have no clue. I tell people I've covered E3 for years--99% of them have no clue what I'm talking about despite being people who play games. At the very least, showing stuff like Women's Murder Club during a press conference shows that Nintendo grossly overestimates the importance of casual gamers at E3.

I'll wait to see some numbers, but I'm guessing that Women's Murder Club isn't going to be "big money electronic entertainment". I'm not getting the Wii Sports or Wii Fit vibe here.

As far as AC vs. MG2 goes, I'm not sure why we're really comparing the two games. That being said, AC2 caught my attention because it's one of the rare instances where developers seem to have actually listened to feedback from critics and players. I hated Assassin's Creed. I wanted to love it, but it just wasn't fun. This time out, they're talking about how they've removed some of the things that made the first game such a chore. I think the chance of the title maybe finally cashing in on its potential is interesting.

Mario Galaxy, meanwhile, is a sequel to a really great game. Right or wrong, it feels like a cash grab. Miyamoto has never done a sequel to a Mario game that was so similar to an earlier entry so the cynical amongst us are going to be suspicious.

Plus, whether it's fair or not, Mario works against a different set of rules than the average game. It's ok for average games to recycle--but Miyamoto's on a different plane and we seem to expect more from him. Might not be fair, but few things in life are. Doesn't mean I won't play it (and probably love it), but my initial reaction is one of "meh" and a feeling of "that's it?" We're spoiled when it comes to Miyamoto, I guess.

Lastly, I wanted to talk about Splinter Cell: Conviction but it just got lost in the shuffle.

Mike Bracken wrote: I've

Mike Bracken wrote:

I've covered E3 for years--99% of them have no clue what I'm talking about despite being people who play games. At the very least, showing stuff like Women's Murder Club during a press conference shows that Nintendo grossly overestimates the importance of casual gamers at E3.

The general population doesn't have to know what E3 is. The point of a tradeshow is to create a spectacle/event to attract mainstream outlets, who wouldn't normal cover the industry, to write about your wares. Gaming media cover the industry all year around. Technically, E3 isn't for them, but organizers need the hardcore to show up to create the spectacle. Nintendo can position their marketing at folks who they *know* will show up (gamers) or folks who they *want* to show up (Oprah). Dictating their marketing to only who shows up defeats the purpose of what the show was intended for. I'm not sure its wise myself, but I'm not the target audience. If Nintendo wants to trump Murder Club as one of its key titles, I can't argue that because its clearly the company they want to be and what better place to do that than at E3? And they'll probably do all the other stuff you mentioned as well.

Even if I were to say "okay,

Even if I were to say "okay, I can accept that argument--gaming press are only at E3 as a tool to create the spectacle"--then how big of an epic fucking failure is debuting Women's Murder Club during the press conference now? Are mainstream outlets supposed to run to the media room and write about some game that was met with complete and utter indifference from the very people who're supposed to be passionate about these things? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I still don't buy this argument that E3 is for the mainstream media. That's just more of that "gamers needing mainstream acceptance to validate their hobby" crap that's been floating around for the past few years. E3's as much for mainstream media as the Adult Entertainment Expo is--the mainstream outlets show up to cover it, but the people involved in putting the show on understand it's the adult press and fans who keep their industry running. If gaming doesn't understand that, they're doomed to fail--because gaming may be big at the moment, but people are fucking fickle and most of them will move on to whatever the next fad is.

Mike Bracken wrote: Even if

Mike Bracken wrote:

Even if I were to say "okay, I can accept that argument--gaming press are only at E3 as a tool to create the spectacle"--then how big of an epic fucking failure is debuting Women's Murder Club during the press conference now? Are mainstream outlets supposed to run to the media room and write about some game that was met with complete and utter indifference from the very people who're supposed to be passionate about these things? You can't have your cake and eat it too.

I get what you are saying and I feel the same way about these games too, but I'm just not comfortable declaring it failure when hardcore gamers aren't the intended audience. To be honest, I don't know what Nintendo's expectations were and how they think it went over. I certainly don't think Nintendo is putting all their eggs in one basket so even if it bombs at E3, I'm sure there's some Nintendo exec saying "I told you so," but it won't matter.

Mike Bracken wrote:

I still don't buy this argument that E3 is for the mainstream media. That's just more of that "gamers needing mainstream acceptance to validate their hobby" crap that's been floating around for the past few years. E3's as much for mainstream media as the Adult Entertainment Expo is--the mainstream outlets show up to cover it, but the people involved in putting the show on understand it's the adult press and fans who keep their industry running. If gaming doesn't understand that, they're doomed to fail--because gaming may be big at the moment, but people are fucking fickle and most of them will move on to whatever the next fad is.

I'll concede that E3 serves different audiences (despite the press-only policy) which includes the enthusiasts press, but general mainstream acceptance has nothing to do with it and that's not what I'm saying. E3 is for publicity and many mainstream outlets won't cover games unless its in the context of an E3. E3 isn't mainly a fan convention like Bot-con or Star Trek ones (although a lot of fans show up). There's a lot of business taking place.

E3... it not just for hardcore gamers, never was.

Mike,

Let's get off Nintendo for a minute.

Tell me why Sony, the leader of the last two generations of consoles and the company with the most fanboys/hardcore following, would reduce its press conference to a boring-ass Powerpoint presentation full of graphs, charts and statistics.

It's because in that audience--next to the fanboys who sneaked into E3 and the enthusiast press (other fanboys who conned their way in)--were members of the mainstream media. That is who represents the mainstream. That is who gets the message out to them.

That consumer is sitting down to catch FOX News, CNBC or whatever and here comes a quick 5 minute report on games and here come the same numbers that Sony bored us with at its press conference. Here are a games that were shown on video at the same press conference. Here are a few of the most (in)famous games as well as some aimed at women and children. And now its done.

That is why Sony made you sit through all of that at its press conference. It did it for that 5-10 minute spot. And it does so knowing that 5-10 minutes is all it can ask for. Or maybe a full page spread in the entertainment section of the local paper. It's post-E3 or Christmas--that are the only times the games industry can get their message to the media have it be positive.

Also, lets not forget who else is in attendance. We're talking about representatives from Target, Walmart, Ebgames, Best Buy, etc., investors, VCs as well as other publishers, developers and members of the games industry, and whomever else would take an interest in the industry. E3 is a trade show, a place for members of the industry (from retail to publishers) to get together and make deals (ok, not so much anymore), show off their wares and prepare for the holiday season.

Back to Nintendo, I can't explain why Nintendo chose that at the show, because it seemed to really stand out. More so than Nintendo probably had intended. But Nintendo is trying to hit two segments of the market, the casual and the hardcore, and no matter how successful or unsuccessful Nintendo was, E3 is the place to do it.

Also

I want to counter-point the Adult Expo arguement.

Microsoft, Sony, and Nintendo, and everyone else in between, do NOT want to be a niche market like the Adult Industry. They WANT to be like Hollywood. Mainstream media covers TV and movies in little entertainment snippets, why can't games be included? The Adult industry will never see that kind of coverage because of content and because of the limited appeal. After all, you kinda have to admit to being a perv if you're interested in the Adult Industry, and what church going family member is going to openly admit that? Good thing I don't go to church...

Right now, its common to think the movie industry puts out movies that appeal to just about every taste. The fight is to show that games can appeal to such a wide variety of tastes.

Re: Also

I think a lot of people like porn, they just don't particularly care about the porn industry.

But yeah, the industry and its "expos" are always relegated to niche coverage or coverage in their own outlets like Hustler or whatever.

Wait and see...

Mike Bracken wrote:

I still don't buy this argument that E3 is for the mainstream media. That's just more of that "gamers needing mainstream acceptance to validate their hobby" crap that's been floating around for the past few years. E3's as much for mainstream media as the Adult Entertainment Expo is--the mainstream outlets show up to cover it, but the people involved in putting the show on understand it's the adult press and fans who keep their industry running. If gaming doesn't understand that, they're doomed to fail--because gaming may be big at the moment, but people are fucking fickle and most of them will move on to whatever the next fad is.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with wanting acceptance from the mainstream, but there are different motivations for that desire. I’m sure there are gamers who just want to continue to play the same types of games – shooter, sports, etc – only with beefed up graphics and more stuff bouncing around on-screen. There’s nothing wrong with that – I like my share of God of War and Madden just like the next guy. Yes, there was a lot of stuff shown at the press conferences for the mainstream, but it also looked like there are more than enough games for the hardcore coming out.

Personally, I’d like to see more TRULY innovative games where gameplay has TRULY branched out. Right now, most games focus on spatial and physical relationships. What about moral and interpersonal relationships? I want to see games where you can have believable conversations with AI characters – things like Façade *tried* to do. I want to be able to talk into a headset with a decent vocabulary and have AI characters respond in meaningful ways. I want the AI to remember who I am. Think about what that kind of thing would do to your typical RPG or adventure game.

Project Natal looks intriguing. There’s definitely something to “amplification of input”, and that’s why simple button presses will always be around, cause you can get a lot for a little. Still, I think that it’s safe to say that we have yet to see the full potential of any of this motion control or motion capture stuff. I’m not sure how staged the Milo demonstration was, and I’m very skeptical that this particular iteration will be as smooth as it was presented, but I think it’s fantastic that companies are actually looking in that direction.

The Wii vitality sensor, while not very exciting in and of itself, I think could really add an immersive ingredient to games in the future. Remember the controller rumble? In and of itself it’s not very exciting, and it took a little while to grow accustomed to, but nowadays if I ever play a game that does not use rumble effectively I feel like something is missing. Imagine if the vitality sensor was simply a part of the normal controller hardware attached to one of the handles. Then imagine games that can use it to detect your level of excitement and dynamically adjust – say, a horror game. As an ingredient in a complete game, combined with everything we already know and love, I think something like the vitality sensor has a lot of potential.

I’m excited for the state of our industry because I think we’re just touching the tip of the iceberg with regards to these kinds of things. Give the industry time. Designers and engineers will figure out how to use this stuff, just like they figured out how to use programmable shaders in a TON of ways to create graphical effects suited to the needs of their games. I really don’t buy into the idea that videogames are a fad – they’re here to stay.

Wow, I'm the most cynical

Wow, I'm the most cynical gamer I know, and even I found the negativity in this podcast too unbearable to finish. I don't know any other site that managed to see so much to vent about over what was easily the best E3 in years.

The Nintendo whining was over the top. "Nintendo is abandoning the hardcore who put them there." Was that meant to be a joke? Also, insisting that they shouldn't have focused on stuff like "Women's Murder Club" because the audience doesn't care is hopelessly naive. Retailers and maintream press easily outnumber the enthusiasts at E3 nowadays. Thinking that the Motion Plus is going to fail because Wii owners don't buy any games for it? Clearly someone hasn't been looking at software sales for the past three years. Of course, outright disdain for any of the new takes on motion control was in the cards.

Apparently a new Metroid by Team Ninja was a horrible idea, as was two new Mario games, so I'm not sure what you were hoping for. Not that Nintendo was alone in the "no matter what they do, I hate it" trend you guys were carrying. The PSP Go! is too pricey? Don't buy it! I can't believe you are seriously concerned that it's going to make the old PSP incompatible with new games, even more ridiculous that it came immediately after complaining that it didn't make enough changes that would guarantee they would have to do that. You're whining that Sony isn't forcing you to buy a new iteration? Seriously?

I finally lost it after you jumped on the most pathetic, self-entitled bandwagon in "angry internet man" history by acting like the announcement of Left 4 Dead 2 was an affront to all that is good and holy. Any simpleton spending two minutes reading info on that game should realize that it's not the kind of thing that can be or should be provided via DLC.

Sorry, guys, but podcasts where just a bunch of nerds sit around and talk about games are a dime a dozen, and most of them seem to be by people who actually enjoy their hobby and aren't old and cranky.

I don't think you were

I don't think you were listening to the same thing we were saying:

"The Nintendo whining was over the top. "Nintendo is abandoning the hardcore who put them there." Was that meant to be a joke? Also, insisting that they shouldn't have focused on stuff like "Women's Murder Club" because the audience doesn't care is hopelessly naive. Retailers and maintream press easily outnumber the enthusiasts at E3 nowadays. Thinking that the Motion Plus is going to fail because Wii owners don't buy any games for it? Clearly someone hasn't been looking at software sales for the past three years. Of course, outright disdain for any of the new takes on motion control was in the cards."

I can only speak for myself, but:

I defended the decision for Women's Murder Club to be there, and Chi - after the fact - completely agreed with me on that one too. I'm also the only one calling the MotionPlus a probable success. As far as the rest of the games Nintendo put out, why shouldn't we call them for the cash-ins that they are. They're not innovating anymore; they're porting. New Super Mario Bros. Wii is a DS game upconverted, SMG2 is more of the same, with RECYCLED CONTENT. Why shouldn't we call them on it? The rant I went on was completely unplanned, but it had to be said.

Brad calling Project Natal the EyeToy is because... well, it IS the EyeToy. And tell me that Molyneux isn't an exaggerating blowhard now - a far cry from his genius from earlier work.

The PSP go - let me say it again - costs as much as a Wii, and you *don't own anything physical in the end.*

Again, it's all in there, but depends on the point of view you have going in.

It's hard not to be more than a little negative about the state of affairs right now. We did spend half the podcast talking about games we liked and were looking forward to, and we had a huge list of games we were happy about.

Nonetheless, it's nice to get feedback anyway, that our ideas aren't just disappearing into the ether.

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